[EVA] Positive Evidence

[Federico Dominguez Pousada]

Or I'm very bad expressing myself in english or you all three didn't
understand what I was saying:

First "Ebj"

> Would you go through a long recap of a concept you've been taking for
> explained in years, or would you rather want your interlocutor to go read
it
> by himself?

The first time I heard about patterning was yesterday. I heard other
theories about the same issue like the "Soul imprintation". But I never saw
the fundaments of the patterning issue.

> > No, we don't know exactly when Eva-02 got the soul.
>
> That's not what he said. He said that we are sure Eva-02 has a soul only
in
> the time after her death, namely when we see it work with Asuka inside.
> Whether it got it when Kyouko was alive or not, we have no explicit data
on
> the series. I believe you agree with this.

I agree.

> > We know that it got its
> > soul after Kyouko's contact, but if it before or after Kyouko's death
its
> a
> > mistery. As William Petty said, Asuka was selected pilot even before
they
> > knew Kyouko was dead.
>
> But after she had attempted contact with the Eva, and thus left a trace of
> herself in it.

Seems a little strange that all their hopes where that Kyouko had to die
until the Eva could work. If Kyouko had a contact experiment, and that
experiment led to 400% synch rate (as happened to Yui), and thus dissolved.
Why bring her back if they only needed her dead?


> > I never said they were divisible. But I say they can be copied.
>
> No. This argument is strongly, explicitly and undeniably NEGATED by the
> series.

Where is it negated?

> > I see no arguments against that.
>
> You haven't seen the Dummy Plug episode?

So because souls cannot be digitized they cannot be copied? Copy would mean
digitize a soul to then put on a vessel (be it body or core)? I don't think
that's positive. Copy means digitization?

> > Besides, if Kaworu DP's only work with Kaworu as
> > resident soul or someone in such a position as Rei and Yui, then souls
> must
> > have been copied also.
>
> This one escapes me, I'm not sure what Kaworu's soul has to do with his
DPs,
> in fact DPs exist to bypass the soul problem, so what of it?

I meant, that if Rei's DP only works with residents souls compatible with
Rei (Yui or Rei herself), then Kaworu's DP would only work with resident
souls compatible with Kaworu. The only one we know is Kaworu himself. Thus
all MP Evas would need Kaworus soul as resident for the DP to work.

> > I'm not the only one who affirms Rei-001 as resident soul. And even if I
> am
> <snip>
> > Look how they call that "osanai Rei"... REI 1. Not 2 or 3, but 1.
>
> Recycled imagery in episodes 25 and 26 is, indeed, recycled. Notice how
some
> of the pictures of Rei chosen to represent Rei II and Rei III are entirely
> arbitrarily done so (I refer to the dialogues between Rei's various
selves).
> This applies very well to the image used for Rei I, as well. "Rei but not
> exactly Rei" can mean a lot of things, by the way. It's the kind of
sentence
> you can use as a backdoor for whatever direction you want the plot to take
> later on.

But what a coincidence! The warped Rei Shinji sees, the one invading him
from Eva, is seen only again in recycled imagery, but its the only one of
those recyclings that's called "REi 1". Suspicious, huh?


> > I'm not arguing against Gainax, but the A^10 description wasn't only
about
> > emotions.
>
> In a show mostly about emotions, isn't that the most logical path to try
to
> explain things?

The A^10 description dealt mainly with higher functions of the brain. And
then as a side note the sentimental part. Even if its about a sentimental
part... what kind of mother-child bond Rei has to synch with something? To
synch with Yui herself?

> > Not exactly. Kaworu states 2 reasons why he can control Eva-02
> <snip>
> > is different
>
> Watch it when using Kaworu's words to back up things, remember the mess
> Gainax made with the extended footage in the director's cut of episode 24.

Nevertheless, Kaworu states the reasons he can control the Eva. Be it Gainax
error or not, its not for me to judge. I only use what I see on that scene:
he says why he can control the eva extraordinarily. And then I figure why
Rei couldn't do the same thing, and I see it fits.



> > With the 1234 argument, everything fixes.
>
> If it's not proven, though, it doesn't fix anything.
>

Its not proven? Its proven by experience:
1)Shinji-Yui
2)Asuka-Kyouko
3)Rei-Yui
(and on this point: what is the only common thing between Rei and Yui? THEIR
BODY)
So then I see synchro is not about mother-child stuff, because of the
motherless one. So I think: "What is common between these 3 pilots and the 3
resident souls? -> That they once had the same body!)
4)Rei-Rei
Its the only one that works on the Rei case, being taken there by all the
evidence that seems to show Rei-001 as the resident soul of Eva-00. It could
also work with Yui, but I have no indications that Yui is that Eva's
resident soul.

Its not a concept I made ante-ex. I saw, I tried to singularize what was
common between the pilots and the resident souls, and with that I came to
this conclusions:

"The factor for synchro is that the pilots once where the same flesh as the
one the resident souls had". That must of course lead to some kind of
determination of personal patterns.

> > Because also Shinji confirms it. Shinji can synch with Eva-00. It has to
> have
> > something compatible to him. Shinji is compatible to Yui, so he should
> also be
> > compatible with Yui's clone. You see? Everything fits perfectly. I just
> don't
> > see a single piece of positive evidence to discard it.
>
> This would have to assume that the thing works genetically and not
> emotionally.

The factor would be more or less genetic. How synchro works not.


> Plus, I don't remember Shinji ever clearing the Absolute
> Borderline in the cross-sync test, so he may well never have synced
wholely,
> just gotten deep enough to feel Rei's pattern inside the Eva.

Episode 17
Ritsuko: As I expected, a smaller synchro-ratio than with Unit One.

See? Shinji did synchronize with Unit 00.

> > Ok you say "in Eva souls are trated like...". But I don't see any
> indication
> > that denies soul copy. But I see many indications that its possible.
>
> Again, it says it is impossible. I'm sorry, but it just says so.
>

Where does it say so?

> > What do you mean by that?
>
> That there is no reason to point out that Rei syncs with Yui, it's not
like
> anybody wants to deny that and it's not like it proves anything.

No reason to point out that Rei synchs with Yui? Episode 14 again:

Ritsuko:The synchro-ratio is almost the same as that with Unit Zero.

Maya:   A similar personal pattern is shared between Unit Zero and Unit One.

Ritsuko: That is why synchronization is possible.

Maya:   Error plus minus 0.03.
        Harmonics are regular.

Ritsuko:No detectable problems in the compatibility between Rei and Unit
One.

See? She synched with Yui.

==========================================

M

"The SOUL is not FLESH!!!"

I never said it was. But because synch works when transmiting 'thought
patterns' determined by personal patterns, and after the experience of who
synchs with who, I gotta say that this personal patterns are in fact
determined by the flesh. Post-ex.

"Because I don't care to waste my time explaining an already debated theory
that
can be read from the archives to someone who only cares about his pet theory
to
the point of making up assumptions and twisting things to support it.  If
you
want to know about it, go research it yourself."

You where the one trying to discard my "pet theory". So please argue like a
gentleman and fundament why the pattern theory is better than what I'm
saying.

"Yeah, right -- even though it is clearly stated that the dummy plugs only
copy
the brain patterns and that souls *cannot* be copied."

Wasn't it "the human mind and spirit are not digitalizable"

I don't see any "copy" there...

"Give us hard evidence (not assumptions or circular logic)  from the series
or supporting materials for your theory"

That's what I've been asking of you. Instead of just disprove what I say
give me hard evidence! I'm giving you hard evidence about the synch factor.

"Otherwise, get used to being ignored as
debate becomes pointless since nothing can be said to change your mind"

I'm open to change my mind, but not without the proper evidence. Not
mentions to things I've never seen before. But, the ones who don't seem to
be open for mind changing is you, disregarding what I post, even with
evidence, as "pet theories", treating me like a capricious child.

==================================
Brendan

"Rei's personality was transfered, although the human mind and spirit
are not digitalizable." is the key line. Ritsuko explicitly says that
Rei's *personality* is transferred, but they cannot digitize (or
otherwise copy) a spirt (= soul). "

Why everyone here thinks that digitizing is copying? I guess the point of
that Ritsuko's line is taht its impossible to put a soul into a machine,
because machines are digital, and souls cannot be digitized. But about
copy... I just don't see what digitization and copying has to do with each
other.

But also think, what personality did they look for to put as DP for Unit 01?
Could it have been anybody? According to what I'm saying about synchro, only
Rei and Shinji could have been the personalities behind the DP. With that I
could affirm that Kaworu's DP would require a Kaworu compatible resident
soul, thus if every MP Eva use a Kaworu DP, each one would have to have a
Kaworu compatible resident soul, and the only one we get to know about is
Kaworu.