[EVA] Positive Evidence
ebj.nerv at flashnet.it
Tue Jun 8 00:07:51 EDT 2004
> The first time I heard about patterning was yesterday. I heard other
> theories about the same issue like the "Soul imprintation". But I never
> the fundaments of the patterning issue.
I will rephrase my statement: if you knew this matter had been already dealt
with before, in a satisfactory way at that, would you go through the trouble
of re-explaining it wholely or would you suppose your interlocutor should
browse **the ML archives** himself?
> Seems a little strange that all their hopes where that Kyouko had to die
> until the Eva could work. If Kyouko had a contact experiment, and that
> experiment led to 400% synch rate (as happened to Yui), and thus
> Why bring her back if they only needed her dead?
Why do you suppose she had a 400% sync rate, dissolved, and was brought
back? It's already been said that such thing failed, and it wouldn't make
sense that Kyouko's case be such, even if we count her mental illness as an
"unsuccessful" outcome. There is no reason not to mantain that the only time
they attempted this (and I believe they even say it was attempted only once)
was with Yui.
> Where is it negated?
I'd say "see Brendan's post", but actually see below and later on.
> So because souls cannot be digitized they cannot be copied? Copy would
> mean digitize a soul to then put on a vessel (be it body or core)? I don't
> think that's positive. Copy means digitization?
What does copy mean, to begin with? What's a "copy" of a soul, to you?
Also, why would they have copied only Rei I? Why not have a copy for each
Rei, so that they wouldn't be at risk of loosing Rei II/III and have no way
to complete Gendou's scenario? Because there is only one Rei soul. Because
Ritsuko says so. So, when she mentions that digitalization isn't possible,
we can take it to mean that such would be the only option to have something
usable for their purposes, namely activation of an Eva. But she says it is
impossible. Thinking of some other, extremely arbitrary concept to express
"copying a soul" already suggests that we're adding something to the show
that isn't there. See later for more details.
> I meant, that if Rei's DP only works with residents souls compatible with
> Rei (Yui or Rei herself), then Kaworu's DP would only work with resident
> souls compatible with Kaworu. The only one we know is Kaworu himself. Thus
> all MP Evas would need Kaworus soul as resident for the DP to work.
Quite frankly, I don't think so. I think that her DP works with Eva-01 until
the patterns can convincingly trick that unit to think there's Rei in the
plug, and Rei can pilot because either she's affine to the body or her body
is affine to the soul. I take the first to be the most likely since Kaworu
has a similar argument to offer. Now, about the Eva Series souls...I think
there's none and that when they resonate with Giant Rei they're actually
being a vehicle for her own atfield. If you think that Shinji's classmates
were supposed to visit Germany by the end of the show and that bit got
scrapped, you can quite suppose that they intended to imbue the Series with
their souls. Which gives you a hint of how unsound the whole soul thing is,
after all. There comes a point in which this unsoundness becomes evident and
the whole argoment moot.
> But what a coincidence! The warped Rei Shinji sees, the one invading him
> from Eva, is seen only again in recycled imagery, but its the only one of
> those recyclings that's called "REi 1". Suspicious, huh?
Suspicious. Should have to rewatch the scene, though.
> The A^10 description dealt mainly with higher functions of the brain. And
> then as a side note the sentimental part. Even if its about a sentimental
> part... what kind of mother-child bond Rei has to synch with something? To
> synch with Yui herself?
See above about Rei-Eva01, and also I believe I've already said I don't
think she pilots Eva-00 the way others do.
> Nevertheless, Kaworu states the reasons he can control the Eva. Be it
> Gainax error or not, its not for me to judge. I only use what I see on
> scene: he says why he can control the eva extraordinarily. And then I
> why Rei couldn't do the same thing, and I see it fits.
I don't see why she wouldn't be able to do it with Eva-00.
> Its not proven? Its proven by experience:
> (and on this point: what is the only common thing between Rei and Yui?
> THEIR BODY)
Mental patterns. I am guessing they depend on what Rei has been experiencing
so far. She has attachment to Shinji and Gendou, something Yui had too.
> So then I see synchro is not about mother-child stuff, because of the
> resident soul.
But if you don't take the body to be the common part between Rei and Yui, as
I object above, then it doesn't work anymore.
> Its not a concept I made ante-ex. I saw, I tried to singularize what was
> determination of personal patterns.
If we get down to the bottom of the show and look at Anno's reasons and
metaphors in the show, which one comes closer, the interpretation about
souls, feelings and mindsets or the one about flesh?
> The factor would be more or less genetic. How synchro works not.
Well, that's weird. The same thing is genetic from one point of view but on
the other one it is not. Hm.
> Episode 17
> Ritsuko: As I expected, a smaller synchro-ratio than with Unit One.
Shall have to rewatch that one.
> Where does it say so?
I guess that if you can conceive a non-descript (and never mentioned) other
way to copy souls, then you can say it doesn't deny such possibility. I'd go
with the razor again, here.
> No reason to point out that Rei synchs with Yui? Episode 14 again:
> See? She synched with Yui.
And, as I said, nobody is denying that.
> "The SOUL is not FLESH!!!"
> determined by the flesh. Post-ex.
Where does flesh fit in the dummy plug case, then?
> Why everyone here thinks that digitizing is copying?
I guess because it is a way to represent in a discrete, quantizable way some
otherwise non-discrete information? And if you have a representation of
something, then you *can* copy it, not to mention that if you *don't* have
it then you *can't* do it because you don't know jack of what you're trying
to copy? It's a double implication, an "if and only if" situation. Try
copying text from a book being blindfold, you'll see what I mean. Er, no pun
A vinyl record is a copy too, but 1) no record is an exact copy of another
and 2) they are analog to our macroscopic perception, but actually digital
the closer we observe them. It's the way we conceive the information stored
in them that is analogic.
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