[EVA] The soul in Eva 00 belonged to Rei's miscarried child.
frumious99 at yahoo.com
Sat Dec 5 21:10:09 EST 2009
"I'm opposed to soul splitting on principle. That's why I mentioned the
empty Rei spares. If Reis remain completely soulless until they are
ready for use, then there's no reason why Rei II couldn't have gotten
the same soul Rei I was using (meaning 100% Lilith's). The partial
soul theory is a cop-out that does not pass the sniff test."
The stated reason that Rei 2 doesn't have 100% of Lilith's soul, is because the other fraction was used in Eva-00...not the other Rei clones. This has nothing to do with them. But moving on to the specific points you make:
"Kyoko's insanity isn't proof she had a partial soul. Just as the empty
spare Reis were alive with no souls, Kyoko could have been completely
soulless and empty."
...the spare Rei clones are just mindless flesh. I should stop using the phrase "lifeless flesh" so much now that I think about it, but really, they're brain-dead/nonsentient..."inanimate" (possessing no anima). Kyoko could still move around and talk, the spare Reis can't think.
By the way, I took as firm evidence that we hear *both* of the Kyoko voices in End of Eva, and I'm sure it was mentioned somewhere, but does a guidebook ever directly say "part of Kyoko's soul was removed in the contact experiment?" and if so which one. Nonetheless we generally accept that as fact.
"And Ritsuko's mom's soul isn't in Magi split three ways. If she's in
Magi at all, she's only in Casper, and probably the entire matter is
Indeed, it was metaphorical; her soul isn't in the Magi; it's a thought-impint thing based on a scan of her mind and its aspects, but she was fully alive when the Magi were finished; impossible if her soul was actually used.
"If Nerv can cram Lilith's soul into a clone at its leisure, can it put
souls into Evas as easily?"
"If so, why involve Rei I at all? Whether
you argue for full souls or partial souls, it seems having a layover
in Rei I is just a waste of time. At least Yui and Kyoko's
transferences were caused by activation experiments themselves.
Whether deliberately or as tragic accidents, they at least suggest
soul transferences have to be done a certain way."
Flashbacks revealed that Yui knew *exactly* what was going to happen in her Contact Experiment, and it wasn't really "an accident" at all; though its questionable how much Gendo and the rest knew about it at the time, this isn't pertinent to this; soul transfers have to be done a certain way...with an Eva.
As for "why bother sticking Lilith's soul in Rei at all, that's needlessly complicated"....well apparently its one of the vital steps in Gendo's plan for Instrumentality.....something that tends to confuse some people from time to time is when they try to incorporate all elements of "The conspiracy" as part of one grand unified plan; actually there were two: Seele's plan and Gendo's rival plan. Seele's plan involved Rei in no way whatsoever. Basically, his plan was to merge himself with Adam, then merge with "Rei" (Lilith's soul, Yui's DNA), then merge with the soul-less body of Lilith, which then merges with "Eva-01" (the DNA of Lilith, but the soul of Yui). The result is "The Forbidden Union of Adam and Lilith", mixed with "Yui" (soul and body reunited) mixed with Gendo. Gendo gets to be with Yui again.
"I suppose this means Rei I theorists can claim Nerv secretly used Rei
I as a vessel purely for soul transference, and left the Rei I shell
to wander around lost. (C.f. Rei II's impeccable sense of direction
and Naoko's surprise at wandering Rei I's behavior.) However, I can't
see Nerv pulling this off without Naoko's knowledge, just as I can't
see Nerv easily salvaging Rei I's soul from wherever it went after Rei
I's death--not without the assistance of one of its top scientists who
inconveniently made herself recently unavailable."
Rei was a vessel for hiding/controlling Lilith's soul, which Gendo came up with but secretly was also going to use to get Yui back. ...left the Rei 1 clone as a shell to wander around lost? What the heck are you referring to? The Rei 1 clone had the DNA cloned body of Yui and the soul of Lilith, then Naoko strangled her; at what point was she "wandering around lost?"
Rei 2's great sense of direction has been noted before, by me, and if you ask how we reconcile this with Rei 1 getting "lost" before meeint Naoko...the simple defense I'd offer is that she's "new" at Nerv HQ and can't possibly be expected to remember things she didn't know in the first place, but anyway...
How Gendo can do things without Naoko? It is an accepted fact that Rei is a clone of Yui, correct? However, Naoko was surprised when Gendo first introduced Rei 1, and apparently had no idea that she wasn't a normal child. Naoko didn't know that Rei was even a clone, so it stands to reason that she also didn't know she was a vessel of Lilith's soul.
As for "how could Gendo do this without people knowing?"; that's an old fan question, connected to bigger ones like "how could people possibly not know what LIlith and Terminal Dogma are? An army of technicians had to build that?"....this all just boils down to non-disclosure agreements of the "breathe a word of this and we shoot you" variety.
"I'm not seriously-seriously suggesting Eva 00 contains Rei's abortion,
but the truth is all the "established" explanations are just as
flawed, with the exception of the most logical conclusion: Nobody
prepared an internally consistent explanation prior to animation
So you're saying you meant "Eva-00's soul is Rei's miscarriage" as a joke. Fair enough, but if someone else asked you this question in earnest, please don't think of a "joke" reply...people often ended up taking these seriously. Again, back in the REAL bootleg VHS days, as in *watching raw Japanese in 1997* days, people turned this into a warped game of Mad Libs, not even trying to understand the series, but sot of..."one up" each other with increasingly "funny" joke-explanations.
Actually, read the counter-responses I've just made through all of this. Entirely internally consistent? A matter of some debate, as ideas were in flux throughout the series. Nonetheless, there are a fair number of "hints" in Evangelion Proposal that this was the general idea around the Gainax office; not flat out statements, but enough that you can see how the earlier ideas did indeed evolve into the later ones.
Evangelion actually makes sense. It's a rational show and ANYONE is capable of fully understanding it.
"I'm pleased to meet you and I hope you guessed my name, but what's puzzling you, is the nature of my game"
On Sun, Dec 6, 2009 at 1:30 AM, ObsessiveMathsFreak
<obsessivemathsfreak at obsessivemathsfreak.org> wrote:
> Evirus Aevrus wrote:
>>> Rei I's soul. It went onto the Eva after Naoko strangled her. This is why
>>> Eva 00 was trying to kill Ritsuko.
>> Didn't Rei I, II, and III consecutively carry Lilith's soul? If each
>> Rei can have a unique soul, then what about the stockpile of naked
>> Reis swimming in the the Nerv Bacta Tank/Gendo's aquarium?
> The Reiquairum Rei's do not have souls. This is one of the few concrete
> things we really know about them.
> RITSUKO(Episode #23'):
> Yes, they're human.
> The Evas do not intrinsically have souls,
> but they have human souls embedded in them.
> They were all salvaged.
> The only vessel that contained a soul was Rei.
> She was the only one born with a soul.
> The Chamber of Gaf was empty, you see.
> *These things here that look like Rei have no souls.*
> They're just vessels.
> That's why I'm going to destroy them.
> Because I hate them./
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