[EVA] Concurrency tangent (WAS: Alternate Rei on DVD cover)

[V V]

>>>“The point I
am trying to make is it actually doesn't matter--it doesn't matter--whether the
source of Adam, Lilith, and the other Angels are "really" aliens, and
that they can be described in strictly scientific terms (although the Angels do
things and have an apparent nature that, in fact, couldn't be explained by any
realistic science).”

 

Just because the Angels
are capable of things that we cannot explain with our *limited* scientific knowledge,
does not make it “unexplainable” as in “magical” within the story;  sufficiently advanced science appears to be
magical; this doesn’t prove that the Angels are of a religious nature.

 

>>>“The point
is that the series could, presumably, choose to use only scientific language to
describe things and events (as many anime series where humans fight aliens
have), but does not do so. Instead, the series, starting with its very title,
is suffused with varieties of religious imagery, both verbal and visual. They
are as much a part of the distinctive culture of the series as its plug suits,
and if you remove it from the series, it's not Evangelion--it's something else.
These references happen dozens of times; it's not like a misunderstanding of
"pipe-weed." It would be like taking all the Elvish words out of "The Lord of the Rings."”

 

So your “argument” now
abandons any real evidence, and is simply citing that it would “change the tone
of the series?” The tone? 

 

This is kind of
reducing the “it has religious meaning” argument to “But ‘Eva’ uses
cross-shaped explosions so prominently!”

 

Yes, Evangelion “uses
religious symbols prominently”…that’s exactly why it was so startling when Anno,
Tsurumaki, and the rest of the creative team over the years have consistently
said that the religious symbols didn’t actually mean anything and were picked “to
look cool”.  That’s the…definition of “irony”
and “surprising”;  yes, after the series
had been out for a while the creators admitted that the religious symbols didn’t
have a deeper meaning and they didn’t seriously think it would be popular in
North America and that Christian audiences would be trying to “decode” it.  

 

Would Lord of the Rings
be the same without Elvish words?  Would
Evangelion be the same without the cross symbols?  …the core themes would indeed remain
intact.  The “meaning” of LOTR wasn’t the
Elvish words; that’s just “texture”

 

Lord of the Rings was a
social commentary on the English experience in the first half of the 20th
century, how the innocence of Edwardian England was shattered on the
battlefields of northern France in World War I, and the further danger of WWII:
how the Industrial Revolution devastated the countryside.  Would such themes remain intact if the Elvish
was taken out? YES, it’s just texture..it’s just “tone”

 

The religious symbols
in Eva are nothing more than “tone”; 
like how a major villain in X-Men comics trying to destroy the world is
called “Apocalypse”…no higher religious meaning was intended.  

 

>>>“For that
matter, is there some special reason a presumably scientific organization like
NERV chose a half-cut fig leaf and the words "God's in His Heaven, All's
Right With the World" for its logo? Organizations tend to put some thought
into the logos that represent them. What would you think about a scientific
research organization in real life that did that? Wouldn't you wonder why those
scientists were choosing to strike this religious tone? What does God or Heaven
have to do with their work in genetic engineering or supercomputing?”

 

…I just finished
explaining again, that Nerv is the lackey of Seele, Seele names everything,
they’re pulling the strings…and Seele are a crazy religious cult whose beliefs
are not objectively true:  they’re a
cult, like Aum Shinrikyo or the Prophets of the Covenant in Halo, that mastered
some scientific technology to further their goals; no better than the mutants
in Beneath the Planet of the Apes that worship an atomic bomb.

 

Once again:  I asked to prove that the religious
references have meaning…outside of Seele’s fanatical beliefs; Seele named it “Heaven’s
Gate” and Seele are fanatics.  You’re
saying the argument for “the religious references mean something”….are the
religious references themselves?  The
very fact that they make these religious references is proof of their
meaning?  “They use giant cross-shaped
explosions, so they *must* mean something!” “They call it Terminal Dogma, so it
must actually refer to religious things!”

 

“The religious
references have no higher meaning” – Tsurumaki

“Oh we just called it “Evangelion”
to sound complicated” –Anno

 

>>>“You're
just choosing to call it...the Spear of Longinus. Say...um...has it ever
occurred to you guys that this might have just been created by aliens, and
there's no reason to act like this all has some kind of religious symbolism?”

 

They chose to
*code-name* it “the Lance of Longinus” because they’re religious fanatics.  Seele’s religious beliefs aren’t presented as…metaphysically
“true”, they’re basically Aum Shinrikyo fanatics worshipping UFOs.  

 

>>>“the
problem is they presumably should "know better," because they and
their personnel were educated not centuries ago, but in the modern day. So why?
Could it be because in the world of the show, these religious elements have
some element of truth?”

 

(long pause)….they name
things after religious concepts at Nerv, because they’re taking orders from
Seele, who are presented as religious fanatics. 
Ritsuko, for example, is a “scientist” how might not necessarily believe
in religious concepts; she calls them things things because Seele forces her
to.

 

Again, “characters who
don’t know or are intimidated by or are working for Seele (Misato, Shinji,
Asuka, etc.)…openly state during the series that they have no clear idea why
they refer to these things by religious terms; Ritsuko told them “that’s what
it’s called” so they accepted it, never realizing that it was because Seele
forced all of these things on Nerv.

 

Seele are the
Illuminati or Freemasons; their beliefs aren’t “objectively true” but a
misinterpretation of an alien manual.